Cold War Crucible: The Korean Conflict and the Postwar World

"This one is closer to what I’ve spent most of my career working on, which is the 20th century and China’s international history in that century and up to today. There is a new generation of Korean War historians, who are now coming of age and look differently at this conflict than what has been the case before. Masuda is a fine example of that. Up to quite recently, what we read about the war has been mainly military history or diplomatic history. And what Masuda wants to do is to look at it from below, at the experiences of Chinese and Koreans, Americans, and the smaller numbers of others who were involved in the war. But he also wants to look at the impact the war had on setting up the post-war world, particularly with regard to East Asia. So, it emphasises the social and ideological effects of the war much more than the actual military history of the war itself. And I think it is a fine example of that kind of history of conflict. Yes, it did set a pattern, particularly in Asia , but also further afield for what kind of Cold War conflicts emerged. These were highly militarised and highly absolutist in ideological terms and with a strong element— which Masuda is very alert to—of ideological and political rivalry within countries themselves, where the war is actually fought. So one of the great things about Masuda’s book is that he doesn’t argue what many Western and some Korean historians have argued in the past, which is that this was a Cold War conflict that just happened to be fought on Korean soil. Support Five Books Five Books interviews are expensive to produce. If you're enjoying this interview, please support us by donating a small amount . He argues that the ideological divisions among Koreans, many of which have lasted until today, also contributed very significantly to this war and the way it was fought. And much of the intensity of it, the ideological intensity of it, is connected to concepts of what in my book I call righteousness, the absolute conviction by various forms of Korean nationalists that they were fighting for a righteous cause, and that only their version of Korea could be seen as valid. I’m absolutely convinced that Korea, sooner or later, will be reunified. This is a country that has a very, very long tradition of being unified. Korea has a history as one integrated country that stretches far further back than most Asian, or for that matter, European countries. I find it really hard to believe that, in a longer historical perspective, this division of the country through an entirely arbitrary line drawn straight across the Korean Peninsula, is going to last. The question is how we get from here to there. And even though I say that I believe Korean reunification is unavoidable and that sounds very positive and good, it could happen in ways that are quite terrible, through war and conflict. That’s what you have to avoid. I think the only way in which it can be avoided is through some kind of security regime for the Korean Peninsula, in which the two Korean states themselves are in the lead in terms of negotiations, not to end the ideological conflict—I don’t think that’s possible—but to develop security arrangements that will avoid accidental war, and that will lessen overall tensions. That would probably contribute to change within North Korea speeding up. The more secure in terms of international arrangements the North Korean regime feels itself to be, the more likely it is that there will be room for change within North Korea. That, ultimately, will lead to the end of that regime without any doubt. I’ve said this before many times but Korea is not Cold War Germany. It doesn’t have the same kind of dependence on a foreign great power. It is, in many ways, dependent on China, as Germany was dependent on the Soviet Union, but not in the same way. The legitimacy and authority of the North Korean regime doesn’t derive from its relationship with China in the same way as East Germany derived its legitimacy from the Soviet Union. “I’m absolutely convinced that Korea, sooner or later, will be reunified” But there are some similarities to do with the idea that it’s only through some kind of participation in the country’s political and economic life that it will be possible to overcome the endemic poverty and economic stagnation that North Korea seems to be facing at the moment. And that’s the parallel to what happened in East Germany. East German protesters in Leipzig and elsewhere started chanting, ‘We are the people!’ And from there to saying, ‘We are one people’ is not very far. That’s what I think will happen at some point. But it’s very important that we get there without a war between the two sides, which would destroy so much of what has been achieved not just in Korea, but in the whole region. I think the current Chinese leadership under Xi Jinping is not quite there. There are people who are writing quite openly in China today that the value for China of having a relationship with North Korea is close to zero. Not only do the North Koreans not contribute anything in terms of China’s own development, but they also have a tendency to speak ill of the Chinese leaders as soon as Beijing does something that North Korea doesn’t agree with. North Korea is not a model ally. It is not the kind of alliance relationship that imperial China would have expected from a Korean vassal. But, on the other hand—and this is what I try to argue in my own book—there are very important parts of the past that link the two. The Korean War is a very significant part of all of that but it goes deeper. There are Confucian elements in the governance of both countries, both in North Korea and China, and that is something that some Chinese communist leaders see the two as having in common, more than the kind of very open, free-for-all society that they see in South Korea—never mind the close association that South Korea has with the United States. So I think that is part of the background that needs to be understood in this very complex relationship between China and North Korea."